I know I could go for a trip to Jamaica. Maybe Hobbitmon will help me keep those thoughts at bay.

Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 12:41 PM, rdeal <rdeal at jcvi.org> wrote:

I agree though it does sound a little too Jamaican mon. ;)

...

From: "Smith, Jim" <JMSmith at stvincenthealth.com> Reply-To: <hobbit at hswn.dk> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:31:22 -0600 To: <hobbit at hswn.dk> Subject: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

My suggestion is to kill all lawyers! <grin>

Actually, I think "hobbitmon" is good.

Jim Smith

-----Original Message----- From: Henrik Stoerner [mailto:henrik at hswn.dk] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 11:30 AM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

Hi everyone,

some lawyers behind the movie company that produced the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy have contacted me about using the name "Hobbit" for the Hobbit monitor project.

Fortunately, it seems that these people are actually quite sensible. They just want to make sure that there is no risk of anyone assuming that the "Hobbit monitor" has anything to do with the books, movies, merchandise etc. that they produce.

So they've suggested that beginning with the next release, "Hobbit monitor" is renamed to either "Hobbi monitor" (without the 't'), or "H.O.B.B.I.T. Monitor" . Or something else, but they want to know if I pick something else.

The full correspondance can be seen at http://www.hobbitmon.com/hobbitdocs/legal/

My current preference is to use the "H.O.B.B.I.T." version; this is most like the current name, and it would also fit with all of the current URL's used for various Hobbit functions (e.g. the "hobbitmon.sf.net" project page). I'm going to write the lawyers and get a definite OK that I can use "hobbitmon" in URL's and such; I doubt that I can get Sourceforge to accept a project named "h.o.b.b.i.t." since that would probably cause havoc with the DNS entries ...

But I'd like to hear if there are other suggestions or opinions.

Regards, Henrik

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Change the name or kill the lawyers? Let's do both! :D

Hobbitmon is quite acceptable, I think.

Ulric

Bilbo?

-----Original Message----- From: Asif Iqbal [mailto:vadud3 at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 1:05 PM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Ulric Eriksson <ulric at siag.nu> wrote:

Change the name or kill the lawyers? Let's do both! :D

Hobbitmon is quite acceptable, I think.

I like `Hobbitmon' too

Ulric

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-- Asif Iqbal PGP Key: 0xE62693C5 KeyServer: pgp.mit.edu

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Hi all

If I could add my 0.02 worth of local currency, how about a complete break from Hobbit and/or fantasy creatures.

As a consultant, Hobbit is one of the products I always try and push with clients. I do the install, provide support and write additional monitoring scripts where they are required.

However, one issue I have encountered, is the difficulty I have in getting CIOs and other senior members of management to take a product called Hobbit seriously. "What's in a name?" you say, and I agree with you, but we are talking PHBs here. For some reason, Patrol, Nagios, MSM, Zenoss, and all the other names appear to "inspire confidence". Hobbit? Some people just refuse to take it seriously. Maybe they associate Hobbits with childrens fantasy, I don't know, but I have had push-back from at least 2 major clients based purely on the name. I am talking about 2 corporate clients that had no monitoring, and wanted to look at monitoring products, but refused to look at Hobbit because of the name. It wasn't an aversion to open source, because Nagios was on the table, but suggest Hobbit, and PHBs snigger, and ask if it's a fantasy product, or has hairy feet, or also comes up short, or some equally silly comment.

I know this is completely unjustified, because I know Hobbit is a superior product, but when dealing with corporates, if the PHBs don't like it, you can forget it.

I have no name suggestions at this time, but I will give it some thought. Hobbitmon, it not bad, but I think PHB's might be more receptive to HMON.

Cheers Vernon

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Though I thought hmon would be simple it appears there is a company already doing business here in the US called hmon... (hmon dot net). Oh well, darn lawyers anyway....

Everett, Vernon wrote:

Hobbitmon, it not bad, but I think PHB's might be more receptive to HMON.

OK, let's scrap the idea of HMON. But I still think we need to give more consideration to a more PHB-acceptable name.

Regards Vernon

From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh at imaginenetworksllc.com] Sent: Friday, 1 August 2008 12:23 PM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change willhappen

At this point in time:

h-mon.com is taken h-mon.net is free

Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 12:18 AM, Tim McCloskey <devzero at cox.net> wrote:

Though I thought hmon would be simple it appears there is a

company already doing business here in the US called hmon... (hmon dot net). Oh well, darn lawyers anyway....

Everett, Vernon wrote:


	Hobbitmon, it not bad, but I think PHB's might be more

receptive to HMON.

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Pointy-Haired Boss (cf. Dilbert) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointy-Haired_Boss

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From: Lars Ebeling [mailto:lars.ebeling at leopg9.no-ip.org] Sent: 01 August 2008 11:44 To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change willhappen

Sorry for being an ignorant.

PHB ??

Lars

Hi Asif

I bet when they don't laugh when the name of an OS is called "windows". But if another OS comes as "Doors" they will laugh, I bet. Do you still value their opinion? I seldom put much value in the opinion of a PHB, but unfortunately, you have to pander to them if you want to make any progress in the corporate world. It's an interesting, complex, but at the same time detestable game you have to play. It involves a lot of lip-biting, pride-swallowing, and blatent (mostly unjustified) flattery. If you ever intend to progress in the corporate world, it is a game you will need to learn to play.

That would be the "worst" reason to change a name in my opinion See earlier comments. The name has put Hobbit out of the running before the race began. How does that help our cause?

Well they should not use Hobbit then. Better that way I think You don't cut off your nose, to spite your face. Remember, it's not the stupid PHB that will suffer. It's the techs, like you and me. The PHB will do his selection process, decide on an inferior product because he thinks it has a flash sounding name, or he gets a good junket from the vendor, and it will be implemented on his command. The PHB will report to upper management what he knows they want to hear, and that is, "Product X, that *I* chose is wonderful. The rollout was a success, and everybody is happy with it." Upper management will know no better, because they never talk to the grunts, and the grunts have to work with inferior products, and never get the change to discuss the matter with upper management. (If they do, they earn the undying enmity of the PHB) PHB makes himself looks good, and gets a bonus for implementing a second-rate product. Is that what you want to see?

Have you ever seen this? http://www.cadinfo.net/humour/ithappens.htm This is so close to the truth, it is scary.

Unfortunately, the answer to the "What's in a name?" question, is, Lots.

I am prepared to accept whatever name the community decide on, but I feel it it important that serious consideration be given to all aspects of a name, including corporate acceptance.

Cheers Vernon

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I would agree with the list so far. Hobbitmon is the best option given so far but I have rolled out Hobbit to a number of organizations and they all have issue with the name, as some even roll out to their client orgs and don't think it looks good on them (even though they LOVE the product and so do I). Maybe time for a more corporate name (and possibly to remove the smiley, frownie faces from the dashboard :) I know I can do this myself, but......

It is not good when some co-workers send you emails with a picture of Frodo and a Monitor Lizard morphed together :(

Geoff

'Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded.' --Yogi Berra

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Kauffman, Tom <KauffmanT at nibco.com> wrote:

Ya, mon! Hobbitmon is acceptable. H.O.B.B.I.T. looks like part of a (bad) '60s spy thriller title ("The man from H.O.B.B.I.T.", with Bono playing the part of Henrik Stoerner).

This should probably be considered a short-term fix. As others have said, it may be time to pick up a more "corporate" name. I'm brain-dead right now, and all I'm coming up with is 'memonsys' (Massively Extendable MONitoring SYStem).

Tom

-----Original Message----- From: Ulric Eriksson [mailto:ulric at siag.nu] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:52 PM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

Change the name or kill the lawyers? Let's do both! :D

Hobbitmon is quite acceptable, I think.

Ulric

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LOL...Now that's the funniest thing I've read...go one further...

T-bbone - Technical Bulletin Board Optimized for Hurting Enterprises...

Paul

...

...

"McDonald, Dan" <Dan.McDonald at austinenergy.com> 8/1/2008 9:57 AM >>>

Hobbit, iirc, was originally a backronym for Highly Optimized Big Brother <mumble>.

So, we can just reverse the order: Tibboh "<mumble> Big Brother Optimized Highly"

The name looks obscure enough to get passed most PHBs, and we'd all know...

Lot of creativity around this topic :-)

I think concerns about the name's impact in professional environment is indeed important. "Big Brother" was impressive, reassuring (for those folks feeling secured to be watched) and is somehow part of an international shared culture (even if none of the PHBs read 1984 ever). So a new name shall carry the same things don't you think so ?

Unfortunately "Big Hobbit" doesn't fulfill these requirements. It's a pity, I really enjoyed the name hobbit...

Francois.

PAUL WILLIAMSON wrote:

LOL...Now that's the funniest thing I've read...go one further...

T-bbone - Technical Bulletin Board Optimized for Hurting Enterprises...

Paul

...

...

...

"McDonald, Dan" <Dan.McDonald at austinenergy.com> 8/1/2008 9:57 AM >>>

Hobbit, iirc, was originally a backronym for Highly Optimized Big Brother <mumble>.

So, we can just reverse the order: Tibboh "<mumble> Big Brother Optimized Highly"

The name looks obscure enough to get passed most PHBs, and we'd all know...

Going with Darren's theme, and as hswn.DK is a top level domain for Denmark. I will have to assume Henrik Stoerner is Danish, or at least in Denmark.

watchful ....... vågent (org open) guardian ....... vogter (com/net/org open) openguardian ... åben (abenvogter com/net/org all open) aware .......... bevidst (com/org open)

Not sure how well google translator is, hell I have a hard enough time with Engrish, ;) ....but that is what it spit out.

I like the first one. But don't know how the word sounds in Danish. Plus he can spin it as "V Agent" for us those that hack the Kings language. Victory Agent, Verbose Agent, Vicious Agent... whatever. Or don't even explain it.

I agree that it would be easier to push a more "corporate friendly" name though.

Not that I have anything against hobbits, or short people in general. I hardly notice them in fact.

/tg

Note: I verified the domains with a whois, so they could be awfully inaccurate.

-----Original Message----- From: Darren.Cotton at ses-engineering.com [mailto:Darren.Cotton at ses-engineering.com] Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 11:24 AM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name changewill happen

I was sat here thinking surely they didn't invent the word hobbit. I know what a hobbit is from my days of role playing (sorry I had to admit it) but

• Nuts!

Just read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbit_%28word%29 and you will discover they do actually hold a trademark on the name. So there is definitely no going back now.

I do agree with a few of the other comments and that of my colleague, Francois, that maybe we should consider a more professionally acceptable name that would assist in its 'saleability' to those in power.

I did like hobbit and accept hobbitmon as an alternative but only because it is easy.

Maybe something completely different is in order - lets look at some thesaurus words:

Monitor Synonyms: adviser, check, control, counsellor, device, guard, mentor, observe, police, reminder, survey, track, warship, watch

Watch Synonyms: Argus-eyed, alert, aware, on the qui vive, surveillant, vigilant, watchful, wide-awake

Surveillance Synonyms: espial, lookout, observation, spying, stakeout, track, vigil, watch

I was also looking for the word open in the thesaurus and eventually got linked to the word honest. Then I though what about honestmonitor - bit cheesy but could fit the bill and the .com and .net are available. and then... openguardian (.com & .net available) openguard (.net available - .com gone)

I will stop now

Darren

On Sat, 02 Aug 2008, s_aiello at comcast.net might have said:

I really have no opinion one way or another.. a name is a name is a name, it is what the software does that is important to me. Normally when I have to pick a name for anything, it is the simplest of names that best conveys the purpose.

Let's get a different set of lawyers involved and choose a name from _Dark Crystal_.

Mike

Maybe time for a more corporate name (and possibly to remove the smiley, frownie faces from the dashboard :) I know I can do this myself, but......

I once proposed we hire professional icon designer to design a set of hobbit alert icons. But this require hobbit fund which doesn't exist yet.

tj

Time for vacation? WIN what you need- enter now! http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergiveaway/?ocid=tag_jlyhm

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:12 AM, s_aiello at comcast.net <s_aiello at comcast.net>wrote:

On Friday 01 August 2008 10:09:24 T.J. Yang wrote:

...

...

Maybe time for a more corporate name (and possibly to remove the smiley, frownie faces from the dashboard :) I know I can do this myself, but......

I once proposed we hire professional icon designer to design a set of hobbit alert icons. But this require hobbit fund which doesn't exist yet.

tj

There is an icon set alternative I created a while back ago, I believe they are up on The Shire. The -recent icons 'pulse' to catch the eye. Not sure if they will be what you are looking for tho.

There used to be a beer-bottle set in the Big Brother collection on Deadcat, but I don't suppose they'd be PHB-friendly either.

I think the point behind the pulsing icons in BB was to make it easier for color-blind people to tell what was going on. That feature probably should be retained in any new icon design.

Ralph Mitchell

My wife is a professional web/graphic designer.

I'll ask her to play around with creating another set of icons, although Steve's should be acceptable to the PHB types.

I do have to say that no one here has grumbled at me about the name or the iconss.

Regards, Thomas Leavitt

-----Original Message----- From: s_aiello at comcast.net [mailto:s_aiello at comcast.net] Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 8:13 AM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

On Friday 01 August 2008 10:09:24 T.J. Yang wrote:

...

Maybe time for a more corporate name (and possibly to remove the smiley, frownie faces from the dashboard :) I know I can do this myself, but......

I once proposed we hire professional icon designer to design a set of hobbit alert icons. But this require hobbit fund which doesn't exist yet.

tj

There is an icon set alternative I created a while back ago, I believe they are up on The Shire. The -recent icons 'pulse' to catch the eye. Not sure if they will be what you are looking for tho.

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I'm sorry...from a distance?

It's a computer screen, not a TV.

You can make your own custom smilies anyways. Just overwrite the images.

Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Stef Coene <stef.coene at docum.org> wrote:

On Saturday 02 August 2008, Thomas Leavitt wrote:

...

My wife is a professional web/graphic designer.

I'll ask her to play around with creating another set of icons, although Steve's should be acceptable to the PHB types.

I do have to say that no one here has grumbled at me about the name or the iconss. I received some remarks from some of my collegaes. 4 of them have color blindness and it's very dificult to see the differences between the smileys from a distance.

Stef

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I've always had it easy seeing colors but I am near sighted. I can see the Hobbit display on a projector that is a good ~18 feet wide, reading the text as well. Colors were easier to read so it must be Galen's idea of "Macular Degeneration" or some sort of color blindness.

Maybe we should follow the idea of doing different symbols. A green plus, red X, yellow circle for <24h and maybe just animate them for anything >24h?

Also I've been kind of curious as to why the default green <24h icon is a triclops...

Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Galen Johnson <Galen.Johnson at sas.com>wrote:

If you've ever been to a real NOC, you'll notice that they usually have a large set of displays that are set up around the room for viewing problems at a glance. I can understand where they would be viewing from a distance.

Ideally, to aid color blind folks (I work with a guy that has Macular Degeneration and requires a special application that reverses his video) and those that are visually impaired, the icon set should have different shapes associated with them as well. I'd have to go look but I think Steve Aiello's set on The Shire are this way.

=G=

*From:* Josh Luthman [mailto:josh at imaginenetworksllc.com] *Sent:* Monday, August 11, 2008 10:08 AM *To:* hobbit at hswn.dk *Subject:* Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

I'm sorry...from a distance?

It's a computer screen, not a TV.

You can make your own custom smilies anyways. Just overwrite the images.

Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Stef Coene <stef.coene at docum.org> wrote:

On Saturday 02 August 2008, Thomas Leavitt wrote:

...

My wife is a professional web/graphic designer.

I'll ask her to play around with creating another set of icons, although Steve's should be acceptable to the PHB types.

I do have to say that no one here has grumbled at me about the name or the iconss.

I received some remarks from some of my collegaes. 4 of them have color blindness and it's very dificult to see the differences between the smileys from a distance.

Stef

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Ok, Figured I break this out into a separate thread, to get all ideas and thoughts about possible icons sets. Now in the past I put together a set, can be found on TheShire. I am not pushing it, just restating since I see alot of comments that this set applies to; color-blind friendly, corporate friendly, recent icons attract the eye. So this is what is presently available if you want them. I am not sure of the state of the archive on TheShire, I have created a few new icons for a special project. If there is interest, I can create a complete icon set (some are missing, they aren't used much; circle with question mark in it). I have included a screenshot in this email to give you a sampling. Also, I think past feedback suggested the pulsing might be better if slower, again if there is interest I can implement that & provide an update icon set archive.

~Steve

On Monday 11 August 2008 12:25:11 Josh Luthman wrote:

You have art skills!

I really think we need to make the difference between the 24h time period. They're barely noticeable right next to each other. Maybe make the older changes animate?

The *-recent icons are animated, they pulse (shrink in size, grow in size, pause, repeat). I animated the *-recent so that your eye would be drawn to an report that had recently changed status. So even if the status is green, people would ask, ".. Oh something happened there", and dig into it. In my configuration the BBGENOPTS is set to "--recentgifs=2h" instead of 24h. My hope is that the Hobbit display page's majority of icons are the not animated. A page full of animated icons would be visual chaos.

The only major part I do not like is that hobbit's event log uses the *-recent icons. So lots of pulsing there, looking at that for a period of time sets me on edge. I could hack the source and change that.. but I would need to do that for every hobbit release... and i try to make as few hack changes as i can.

The symbols there are acceptable, however, I would expect those who are colorblind using large displays on the wall won't really see the shapes well. With only 16x16 pixels there is only so much that can be done and there are only so many different shapes. I did consider using the psychic flash card set (circle, star, wavey lines, etc), but again 16 pixels and trying to avoid jaggy lines. There is always the possibility of increasing the image size, but then you lose the ability to display a large amount of information on the screen. So there is a fine line. I have seen NOCs in the past use Browsers that allow you to increase page size (text & images), or the large screen monitors resolution set to a lower resolution (1024x768 / 800x600).

Again I am not pushing these icons, they suite my needs fine (though sometimes I wish the animate pause was longer). If people want to use them they are welcomed. And if there is demand I can create an update, I am just too lazy to make those small changes just for myself ;)

~Steve

Just an FYI that I have updated the iconset on theShire. Can see at http://www.trantor.org/theshire/doku.php/addons:sa_icons

~Steve

I know GIMP has some sort of an animation shop.

http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/Simple_Animations/

Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 1:17 PM, Stef Coene <stef.coene at docum.org> wrote:

On Monday 11 August 2008, s_aiello at comcast.net wrote:

...

Ok, Figured I break this out into a separate thread, to get all ideas and thoughts about possible icons sets. Now in the past I put together a set, can be found on TheShire. I am not pushing it, just restating since I see alot of comments that this set applies to; color-blind friendly, corporate friendly, recent icons attract the eye. So this is what is presently available if you want them. I am not sure of the state of the archive on TheShire, I have created a few new icons for a special project. If there is interest, I can create a complete icon set (some are missing, they aren't used much; circle with question mark in it). I have included a screenshot in this email to give you a sampling. Also, I think past feedback suggested the pulsing might be better if slower, again if there is interest I can implement that & provide an update icon set archive. Some thoughts.

Green is ok, so a static icon is fine: keep the smiley.

Red / Orange is bad, so a pulsing or changing icon for atracting attention. A red smiley with the shape like the stop road sign pulsating to an X. An orange smiley with a triangle shape plusating to a - or _. Red pulsating faster then orange.

For the other colors, the shape is not that important.

Who knows a good program for creating animated icons for linux ?

Stef

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

Hundreds of animating gifs do actually take their toll on the CPU. I actually disabled looping animated gifs in firefox due to this ;)

Cheers, Omar

On mán 11.ágú 2008 18:46, Ralph Mitchell wrote:

If you have a few GIF images to cycle through, you can stitch them together using 'gifsicle':

http://www.lcdf.org/~eddietwo/gifsicle/

I've used that for weather radar animations, to get more than the standard 6 image cycle. IIRC you can set the delay between images as well as the restart-loop delay and maybe other stuff too.

Ralph Mitchell

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 12:55 PM, Josh Luthman <josh at imaginenetworksllc.com <mailto:josh at imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:

I know GIMP has some sort of an animation shop.

http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/Simple_Animations/


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer


On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 1:17 PM, Stef Coene <stef.coene at docum.org
<mailto:stef.coene at docum.org>> wrote:

    On Monday 11 August 2008, s_aiello at comcast.net
    <mailto:s_aiello at comcast.net> wrote:
    > Ok,
    > Figured I break this out into a separate thread, to get all
    ideas and
    > thoughts about possible icons sets. Now in the past I put
    together a set,
    > can be found on TheShire. I am not pushing it, just restating
    since I see
    > alot of comments that this set applies to; color-blind
    friendly, corporate
    > friendly, recent icons attract the eye. So this is what is
    presently
    > available if you want them. I am not sure of the state of the
    archive on
    > TheShire, I have created a few new icons for a special
    project. If there is
    > interest, I can create a complete icon set (some are missing,
    they aren't
    > used much; circle with question mark in it). I have included a
    screenshot
    > in this email to give you a sampling. Also, I think past
    feedback suggested
    > the pulsing might be better if slower, again if there is
    interest I can
    > implement that & provide an update icon set archive.
    Some thoughts.

    Green is ok, so a static icon is fine: keep the smiley.

    Red / Orange is bad, so a pulsing or changing icon for atracting
    attention.  A
    red smiley with the shape like the stop road sign pulsating to
    an X.  An
    orange smiley with a triangle shape plusating to a - or _.  Red
    pulsating
    faster then orange.

    For the other colors, the shape is not that important.

    Who knows a good program for creating animated icons for linux ?


    Stef

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iD8DBQFIoJO8O5lNk+Yy9cgRApE+AJ9Ir6IUMpxCPqY4tdKDOj4dpvjF7gCgni1A l4vXD0eF3zpMSxccF1NloOc= =0IdD -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Changing the Hobbit background is a whole other situation. I think we should work out what works best for icons before working on the background.

I think we all agree that the shapes need to change. We don't like the devil and triclops for visibility reasons. I like the road signs idea and I also like my idea of the +, X, O shapes for green/red/yellow.

Does anyone have any art skills? I skipped art class in High School.

Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Rafal Roginela < Rafal.Roginela at americashloans.net> wrote:

HI,

Don't want to seem like I'm butting in but how bout road sign shapes they have colors and shapes that most people know meaning of: stop sign is read and has the familiar octagon shape, triangle for caution is usually orange, and a circle for green might be a good way to do it. Just my 2 cents. Love the hobbit no matter what the icons it is the best!!

Thank You

*Rafal Roginela*

Office (847) 827-9740 x109 Fax (847) 493-8031

This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.

*From:* Josh Luthman [mailto:josh at imaginenetworksllc.com] *Sent:* Monday, August 11, 2008 10:20 AM

*To:* hobbit at hswn.dk *Subject:* Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

I've always had it easy seeing colors but I am near sighted. I can see the Hobbit display on a projector that is a good ~18 feet wide, reading the text as well. Colors were easier to read so it must be Galen's idea of "Macular Degeneration" or some sort of color blindness.

Maybe we should follow the idea of doing different symbols. A green plus, red X, yellow circle for <24h and maybe just animate them for anything >24h?

Also I've been kind of curious as to why the default green <24h icon is a triclops...

Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Galen Johnson <Galen.Johnson at sas.com> wrote:

If you've ever been to a real NOC, you'll notice that they usually have a large set of displays that are set up around the room for viewing problems at a glance. I can understand where they would be viewing from a distance.

Ideally, to aid color blind folks (I work with a guy that has Macular Degeneration and requires a special application that reverses his video) and those that are visually impaired, the icon set should have different shapes associated with them as well. I'd have to go look but I think Steve Aiello's set on The Shire are this way.

=G=

*From:* Josh Luthman [mailto:josh at imaginenetworksllc.com] *Sent:* Monday, August 11, 2008 10:08 AM

*To:* hobbit at hswn.dk *Subject:* Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

I'm sorry...from a distance?

It's a computer screen, not a TV.

You can make your own custom smilies anyways. Just overwrite the images.

Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Stef Coene <stef.coene at docum.org> wrote:

On Saturday 02 August 2008, Thomas Leavitt wrote:

...

My wife is a professional web/graphic designer.

I'll ask her to play around with creating another set of icons, although Steve's should be acceptable to the PHB types.

I do have to say that no one here has grumbled at me about the name or the iconss.

I received some remarks from some of my collegaes. 4 of them have color blindness and it's very dificult to see the differences between the smileys from a distance.

Stef

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

The issue with colour blindness is that it's not the same for everyone. Some people can't see red, others can't see green, still others can't see easily see blue (simplified, but close enough for this discussion).

So, we could try and include multiple colour schemes, multiple shape schemes, or both.

For the sake of simplicity I reckon on the multiple shapes idea (or simply changing the shapes that we currently use, but it's nice to be given choices).

|\/|artin

-----Original Message-----
From: Galen Johnson [mailto:Galen.Johnson at sas.com] 
Sent: 11 August 2008 16:11
To: hobbit at hswn.dk
Subject: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name

change will happen

If you've ever been to a real NOC, you'll notice that they

usually have a large set of displays that are set up around the room for viewing problems at a glance. I can understand where they would be viewing from a distance.

Ideally, to aid color blind folks (I work with a guy that has

Macular Degeneration and requires a special application that reverses his video) and those that are visually impaired, the icon set should have different shapes associated with them as well. I'd have to go look but I think Steve Aiello's set on The Shire are this way.

=G=

 

From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh at imaginenetworksllc.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 10:08 AM
To: hobbit at hswn.dk
Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name

change will happen

I'm sorry...from a distance?

It's a computer screen, not a TV.

You can make your own custom smilies anyways.  Just overwrite

the images.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it,

poorly. --- Henry Spencer

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Stef Coene

<stef.coene at docum.org> wrote:

On Saturday 02 August 2008, Thomas Leavitt wrote:
> My wife is a professional web/graphic designer.
>
> I'll ask her to play around with creating another set of

icons, although > Steve's should be acceptable to the PHB types. > > I do have to say that no one here has grumbled at me about the name or > the iconss.

I received some remarks from some of my collegaes.  4 of them

have color blindness and it's very dificult to see the differences between the smileys from a distance.

Stef


To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to
hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk



 

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Question mark ? for missing and Exclamation ! for disabled.

/Thomas Kern /301-903-2211 (O) /301-905-6427 (M)

-----Original Message----- From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh at imaginenetworksllc.com] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 13:07 To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

Shapes is what I was going for (plus for positive, minus or an X for negative, circle for neutral.

Josh Luthman

By tick I assume you mean a check mark http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:eY2rDilNoiIJ::www.aperfectworld.org/clip... correct?

If so the check is already used by the acknowledgment icon.

Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Rob MacGregor <rob.macgregor at gmail.com>wrote:

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 18:52, Kern, Thomas <Thomas.Kern at hq.doe.gov> wrote:

...

Question mark ? for missing and Exclamation ! for disabled.

I'd suggest:

Green: Tick Yellow: (warning) Triangle Red: Stop sign or ! Disabled: X Missing: - or ?

-- Please keep list traffic on the list.

Rob MacGregor Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he doesn't become a monster. Friedrich Nietzsche

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In <43ea8d070808111141k337397bfy308263ee86bd3be at mail.gmail.com> "Rob MacGregor" <rob.macgregor at gmail.com> writes:

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 18:52, Kern, Thomas <Thomas.Kern at hq.doe.gov> wrote:

...

Question mark ? for missing and Exclamation ! for disabled.

I'd suggest:

Green: Tick Yellow: (warning) Triangle Red: Stop sign or ! Disabled: X Missing: - or ?

Please remember that there is a separate set of icons for alerts that have been acknowledged. A checkmark/tick is currently used for that (it's red or yellow, so I suppose using a green tick might be ok ...)

I do appreciate all of the suggestions for new icons, and would be very happy to include new graphics. I just don't have the skills to come up with anything, so when I created Hobbit I just had to grab whatever was out there with an acceptable license.

Regards, Henrik

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:45:21 -0400 From: gumby3203 at gmail.com To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

I think it's worth asking, have those same lawyers yet stumbled upon The Shire?

I agree with the most recent postings about PHBs and the name "Hobbit", but I wonder if the lawyers would accept HOBBIT (as opposed to Hobbit or H.O.B.B.I.T.). All caps would seem to imply it as an acronym, not needing those ugly periods.

I really like the name change case of Ethereal.

Ethereal -> WireShark

Now we have "hobbit" need to be changed.

hobbit -> hobbitmon hobbitmonitor (how about this one ? longer but no confusion)

I like the hobbitmon the best now but I am concern about the "mon"(mother) part when presenting the software.

tj

Time for vacation? WIN what you need- enter now! http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergiveaway/?ocid=tag_jlyhm

Is hobbitmon.com owned by community member here ? Just right after proposing "hobbitmonitor" naming, I grabbed the "hobbitmonitor.com". This name will be donated to the hobbit community if we(Henrik) decide to use HobbitMonitor over hobbitmon.

Somone called Henrik Stoerner whoever that is ;)

WHOIS information for: hobbitmon.com:

[whois.joker.com]

domain: hobbitmon.com

owner: Henrik Stoerner

email: henrik at hswn.dk

address: Raunstrupvej 13

city: Vanloese

postal-code: 2720

country: DK

phone: +45.38761925

admin-c: CCOM-51990 jokerhostmaster at ldnet.dk

tech-c: CCOM-51990 jokerhostmaster at ldnet.dk

billing-c: CCOM-51990 jokerhostmaster at ldnet.dk

reseller: Aendre whois informationer paa domaenet

reseller: Change whois information on this domain

reseller: http://whois.gratisdns.dk

nserver: ns1.gratisdns.dk

nserver: ns2.gratisdns.dk

nserver: ns3.gratisdns.dk

nserver: ns4.gratisdns.dk

nserver: ns5.gratisdns.dk

status: lock

created: 2006-08-28 14:04:55 UTC

modified: 2008-03-31 07:41:46 UTC

expires: 2009-08-28 14:04:56 UTC

This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs service.

How about avviso (alert in Italian)?

2008/8/1 Geoff Hallford <geoff.hallford at gmail.com>:

Hobbitmon.com is owned by Henrik:

Whois domain: hobbitmon.com owner: Henrik Stoerner email: address: Raunstrupvej 13 city: Vanloese postal-code: 2720 country: DK phone: +45.38761925 admin-c: CCOM-51990 tech-c: CCOM-51990 billing-c: CCOM-51990 reseller: Aendre whois informationer paa domaenet reseller: Change whois information on this domain reseller: http://whois.gratisdns.dk nserver: ns1.gratisdns.dk nserver: ns2.gratisdns.dk nserver: ns3.gratisdns.dk nserver: ns4.gratisdns.dk nserver: ns5.gratisdns.dk status: lock created: 2006-08-28 14:04:55 UTC modified: 2008-03-31 07:41:46 UTC expires: 2009-08-28 14:04:56 UTC

contact-hdl: CCOM-51990 person: - - organization: Larsen Data v/Peter Larsen email: address: Snaregade 12, 2 tv city: Koebenhavn K postal-code: 1205 country: DK phone: +45.46903232

'Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded.' --Yogi Berra

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:38 AM, T.J. Yang <tj_yang at hotmail.com> wrote:

...

T.J. Yang

...

From: tj_yang at hotmail.com To: hobbit at hswn.dk Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:01:15 -0500 Subject: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

---

...

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:45:21 -0400 From: gumby3203 at gmail.com To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

I think it's worth asking, have those same lawyers yet stumbled upon The Shire?

I agree with the most recent postings about PHBs and the name "Hobbit", but I wonder if the lawyers would accept HOBBIT (as opposed to Hobbit or H.O.B.B.I.T.). All caps would seem to imply it as an acronym, not needing those ugly periods.

I really like the name change case of Ethereal.

Ethereal -> WireShark

Now we have "hobbit" need to be changed.

hobbit -> hobbitmon hobbitmonitor (how about this one ? longer but no confusion)

I like the hobbitmon the best now but I am concern about the "mon"(mother) part when presenting the software.

Is hobbitmon.com owned by community member here ? Just right after proposing "hobbitmonitor" naming, I grabbed the "hobbitmonitor.com". This name will be donated to the hobbit community if we(Henrik) decide to use HobbitMonitor over hobbitmon.

tj

---

Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started.

-- Tel: 0400 466 952 Fax: 0433 123 226 email: philwild AT gmail.com

This was one of a heap of words I selected and then used google to translate to all the languages that it can. This one came up and I liked it, but having googled it afterwards, it is a bad choice... 16 million plus hits and lots of companies using it...

Phil

2008/8/4 Wayne Gemmell <wayne at flashmedia.co.za>:

On Friday 01 August 2008 17:57:54 Phil Wild wrote:

...

How about avviso (alert in Italian)?

I like this one. My only gripe about the hobbit name is that it makes googling damn hard.

-- Regards Wayne Gemmell Flash Media Group Tel: 27 (0)12 430 7597 Cell: 27 (0)83 666 3342

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

-- Tel: 0400 466 952 Fax: 0433 123 226 email: philwild AT gmail.com

We could use Avvisu (not quite as nice sounding) Alert in Calabrese (southern Italian dialect) according to websters

or Avvisii (only 78 google hits)

Perhaps we need a poll? Well actually, this is Henrik's baby and I guess he has not even asked for suggestions...

Cheers

Phil

2008/8/4 Ward, Martin <Martin.Ward at colt.net>:

All the useful (org, com, net, info ) avviso domains are taken which is a shame. If we were going to change completely I would have liked this idea.

|\/|

-----Original Message----- From: Phil Wild [mailto:philwild at gmail.com] Sent: 01 August 2008 16:58 To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

How about avviso (alert in Italian)?

2008/8/1 Geoff Hallford <geoff.hallford at gmail.com>:

...

Hobbitmon.com is owned by Henrik:

Whois domain: hobbitmon.com owner: Henrik Stoerner email: address: Raunstrupvej 13 city: Vanloese postal-code: 2720 country: DK phone: +45.38761925 admin-c: CCOM-51990 tech-c: CCOM-51990 billing-c: CCOM-51990 reseller: Aendre whois informationer paa domaenet reseller: Change whois information on this domain reseller: http://whois.gratisdns.dk nserver: ns1.gratisdns.dk nserver: ns2.gratisdns.dk nserver: ns3.gratisdns.dk nserver: ns4.gratisdns.dk nserver: ns5.gratisdns.dk status: lock created: 2006-08-28 14:04:55 UTC modified: 2008-03-31 07:41:46 UTC expires: 2009-08-28 14:04:56 UTC

contact-hdl: CCOM-51990 person: - - organization: Larsen Data v/Peter Larsen email: address: Snaregade 12, 2 tv city: Koebenhavn K postal-code: 1205 country: DK phone: +45.46903232

'Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded.' --Yogi Berra

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:38 AM, T.J. Yang <tj_yang at hotmail.com> wrote:

...

T.J. Yang

...

From: tj_yang at hotmail.com To: hobbit at hswn.dk Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:01:15 -0500 Subject: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change

...

...

...

will happen

---

...

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:45:21 -0400 From: gumby3203 at gmail.com To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

I think it's worth asking, have those same lawyers yet stumbled upon The Shire?

I agree with the most recent postings about PHBs and the name "Hobbit", but I wonder if the lawyers would accept HOBBIT (as opposed to Hobbit or H.O.B.B.I.T.). All caps would seem to imply it as an acronym, not needing those ugly periods.

I really like the name change case of Ethereal.

Ethereal -> WireShark

Now we have "hobbit" need to be changed.

hobbit -> hobbitmon hobbitmonitor (how about this one ? longer but no confusion)

I like the hobbitmon the best now but I am concern about the "mon"(mother) part when presenting the software.

Is hobbitmon.com owned by community member here ? Just right after proposing "hobbitmonitor" naming, I grabbed the "hobbitmonitor.com". This name will be donated to the hobbit community if we(Henrik) decide to use HobbitMonitor over hobbitmon.

tj

---

Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started.

-- Tel: 0400 466 952 Fax: 0433 123 226 email: philwild AT gmail.com

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

---

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The contents of this message and its attachments are confidential and may also be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the named addressee and/or have received this message in error, please advise us by e-mailing security at colt.net and delete the message and any attachments without retaining any copies.

Internet communications are not secure and COLT does not accept responsibility for this message, its contents nor responsibility for any viruses.

No contracts can be created or varied on behalf of COLT Telecommunications, its subsidiaries or affiliates ("COLT") and any other party by email Communications unless expressly agreed in writing with such other party.

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On Mon, August 4, 2008 05:32, Henrik Stoerner wrote:

I'd like suggestions for the name - it is a good topic for brainstorming. But You're right that in the end it is my decision what name to go with.

There are a few things I disagree with Henrik on, but this is not one of them. I'll be happy as long as he doesn't make the "o" one of those things with the slash through it.

I'm surprised, though, that no one has suggested "Hamlet"....

I thought some (more) this weekend while updating some stuff on The Shire...WOWH Mon (What Once Was Hobbit Mon)...although, in reality, if we can get the lawyers to agree to hobbitmon, that would probably be best.

After reading the letters, it looked to me that as soon as they found out they couldn't pin anyone down to get a slice of the ephemeral pie, they decided that the name should be changed. One of the many things I hate about some of the recent changes to copyright laws (thanks to Disney) is the Tolkien should be part of the public domain by now...just like Mickey Mouse. Unfortunately, companies have found that they can still make money on the name and Hobbit is just the unfortunate recipient of their focus.

That said, it's great to see the Hobbit community embracing the change...on other lists I've been on, the number of flames would have far outweighed the general good will (and tongue-in-cheek) suggestions presented so far.

One last comment, any manager or PHB worth their pay would embrace Hobbit on it's merit not it's name (yes, I'm a Dilbert fan and know the reality). I've been (extremely) fortunate to have worked for no one that actually fits the PHB moniker.

=G=

-----Original Message----- From: Henrik Stoerner [mailto:henrik at hswn.dk] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 5:33 AM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

In <258e9b160808040219y6d1f62c1o4394388361fad1e8 at mail.gmail.com> "Phil Wild" <philwild at gmail.com> writes:

Perhaps we need a poll? Well actually, this is Henrik's baby and I guess he has not even asked for suggestions...

Consider yourself asked, then :-)

I'd like suggestions for the name - it is a good topic for brainstorming. But You're right that in the end it is my decision what name to go with.

Henrik

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In <36304.192.168.0.1.1217859745.squirrel at epperson.homelinux.net> "Hobbit User in Richmond" <hobbit at epperson.homelinux.net> writes:

On Mon, August 4, 2008 09:00, Galen Johnson wrote:

...

After reading the letters, it looked to me that as soon as they found out they couldn't pin anyone down to get a slice of the ephemeral pie, they decided that the name should be changed.

Well, as a PHB who's also a Linux lead, the way I read the letters is that as soon as they found out they couldn't pin anyone down to commit to not selling slices of their client's pie and not giving any more of it away than was already the case, they wanted a name change. I thought the attitude was quite refreshing after seeing decades worth of threatening cease-and-desist letters.

I agree. I think they have been treated me nicely; they could have just sent me a "stop-doing-this-or-we'll-sue-you-now" letter. They didn't, and in fact they have been generous to suggest a couple of possible name changes that I could do which would keep them happy.

Add to this that they actually knew what I was talking about, when I told them that Hobbit is an Open Source product, so there is no money involved.

They have a trademark to defend, and one of the rules of that game is that they MUST react when they become aware of possible violations of their trademark; if they don't, then they can forfeit their ownership of the trademark. So they have to do something, and I think they handled this nicely.

Sure - having to rename everythin IS annoying, but I should have thought about that when I first picked the name.

Regards, Henrik

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Galen Johnson <Galen.Johnson at sas.com>wrote:

I'm not saying they weren't very nice...I agree it could have been handled in a much less friendly manner...lawyers never cease to amuse me.

Of course, when we pick a new name, I'm going to have to figure out a different name for The Shire to go with it...maybe I'll call it "Live Dog" or "Undead Hamster" or "Flushed Fish"... :-D

Hahah, "Undead Hamster"! That name immediately reminded me of the "Hampster Dance" [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampster_Dance]

=G=

-----Original Message----- From: Henrik Stoerner [mailto:henrik at hswn.dk] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:32 AM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] Don't make the pie higher! (was: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen)

In <36304.192.168.0.1.1217859745.squirrel at epperson.homelinux.net> "Hobbit User in Richmond" <hobbit at epperson.homelinux.net> writes:

...

On Mon, August 4, 2008 09:00, Galen Johnson wrote:

...

After reading the letters, it looked to me that as soon as they found out they couldn't pin anyone down to get a slice of the ephemeral pie, they decided that the name should be changed.

...

Well, as a PHB who's also a Linux lead, the way I read the letters is that as soon as they found out they couldn't pin anyone down to commit to not selling slices of their client's pie and not giving any more of it away than was already the case, they wanted a name change. I thought the attitude was quite refreshing after seeing decades worth of threatening cease-and-desist letters.

I agree. I think they have been treated me nicely; they could have just sent me a "stop-doing-this-or-we'll-sue-you-now" letter. They didn't, and in fact they have been generous to suggest a couple of possible name changes that I could do which would keep them happy.

Add to this that they actually knew what I was talking about, when I told them that Hobbit is an Open Source product, so there is no money involved.

They have a trademark to defend, and one of the rules of that game is that they MUST react when they become aware of possible violations of their trademark; if they don't, then they can forfeit their ownership of the trademark. So they have to do something, and I think they handled this nicely.

Sure - having to rename everythin IS annoying, but I should have thought about that when I first picked the name.

Regards, Henrik

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

anyone suggest HNh (Hobbit is not hobbit) to follow GNU (gnu not unix) ?

Josh Luthman wrote:

Flushed Fish has my vote.

Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Gary Baluha <gumby3203 at gmail.com <mailto:gumby3203 at gmail.com>> wrote:

On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Galen Johnson
<Galen.Johnson at sas.com <mailto:Galen.Johnson at sas.com>> wrote:

    I'm not saying they weren't very nice...I agree it could have
    been handled in a much less friendly manner...lawyers never
    cease to amuse me.

    Of course, when we pick a new name, I'm going to have to
    figure out a different name for The Shire to go with
    it...maybe I'll call it "Live Dog" or "Undead Hamster" or
    "Flushed Fish"... :-D


Hahah, "Undead Hamster"!  That name immediately reminded me of the
"Hampster Dance"
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampster_Dance]
 

    =G=

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Henrik Stoerner [mailto:henrik at hswn.dk
    <mailto:henrik at hswn.dk>]
    Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:32 AM
    To: hobbit at hswn.dk <mailto:hobbit at hswn.dk>
    Subject: Re: [hobbit] Don't make the pie higher! (was: RE:
    [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will
    happen)

    In
    <36304.192.168.0.1.1217859745.squirrel at epperson.homelinux.net
    <mailto:36304.192.168.0.1.1217859745.squirrel at epperson.homelinux.net>>
    "Hobbit User in Richmond" <hobbit at epperson.homelinux.net
    <mailto:hobbit at epperson.homelinux.net>> writes:

    >On Mon, August 4, 2008 09:00, Galen Johnson wrote:
    >> After reading the letters, it looked to me that as soon as
    they found out
    >> they couldn't pin anyone down to get a slice of the
    ephemeral pie, they
    >> decided that the name should be changed.

    >Well, as a PHB who's also a Linux lead, the way I read the
    letters is that
    >as soon as they found out they couldn't pin anyone down to
    commit to not
    >selling  slices of their client's pie and not giving any more
    of it away
    >than was already the case, they wanted a name change.  I
    thought the
    >attitude was quite refreshing after seeing decades worth of
    threatening
    >cease-and-desist letters.


    I agree. I think they have been treated me nicely; they could
    have just
    sent me a "stop-doing-this-or-we'll-sue-you-now" letter. They
    didn't,
    and in fact they have been generous to suggest a couple of
    possible
    name changes that I could do which would keep them happy.

    Add to this that they actually knew what I was talking about,
    when I
    told them that Hobbit is an Open Source product, so there is
    no money
    involved.

    They have a trademark to defend, and one of the rules of that
    game is
    that they MUST react when they become aware of possible
    violations of
    their trademark; if they don't, then they can forfeit their
    ownership
    of the trademark. So they have to do something, and I think
    they handled
    this nicely.

    Sure - having to rename everythin IS annoying, but I should
    have thought
    about that when I first picked the name.


    Regards,
    Henrik


    To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to
    hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk <mailto:hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk>




    To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to
    hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk <mailto:hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk>

Tim Grzechowski wrote:

We had a proc we were watching that was originally red. We have since decided that this really is not a red condition for us and should be only a (yellow) warning.

After making the changes in hobbit-clients.cfg and saving the file.
Starting/stopping the hobbit server (several times) over the last week. The proc continues to show red.

What was the line before and what is it now?

Cheers

Iain

How do I re-set this parameter?

/tg

Tim Grzechowski wrote:

This is the "new" version. The only difference is that we changed the "fabric_worker_manager" from red to yellow.

      HOST=tstfabric64.ce.fedex.com
              UP      15m
              DISK    /                       90      95
              PROC    fabric_keeper           1               red
              PROC    fabric_worker_manager   1               yellow
              PROC    portmap                 1               red
              PROC    nfs                     1               red
              PROC    sshd                    1               yellow
              PROC    hobbitlaunch3

Yet it is still showing up on all the display pages as "red"

/tg

You could try

PROC fabric_worker_manager 1 color=yellow PROC sshd 1 color=yellow

-----Original Message----- From: Iain M Conochie [mailto:iain at shihad.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 11:30 AM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] Simple hobbit-clients.cfg Q.

Tim Grzechowski wrote:

...

We had a proc we were watching that was originally red. We have since decided that this really is not a red condition for us and should be only a (yellow) warning.

After making the changes in hobbit-clients.cfg and saving the file.
Starting/stopping the hobbit server (several times) over the last week. The proc continues to show red.

What was the line before and what is it now?

Cheers

Iain

...

How do I re-set this parameter?

/tg

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

Insert appropriate Prince (or the artist formerly referred to as Prince) joke here. :-)

Cheers V

From: michael nemeth [mailto:michael.nemeth at lmco.com] Sent: Tuesday, 5 August 2008 11:53 PM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] Don't make the pie higher!

anyone suggest HNh (Hobbit is not hobbit) to follow GNU (gnu not unix) ?

Josh Luthman wrote:

Flushed Fish has my vote.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it,

poorly. --- Henry Spencer

On Tue, Aug 5, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Gary Baluha

<gumby3203 at gmail.com> wrote:

	On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 10:52 AM, Galen Johnson

<Galen.Johnson at sas.com> wrote:

		I'm not saying they weren't very nice...I agree

it could have been handled in a much less friendly manner...lawyers never cease to amuse me. Of course, when we pick a new name, I'm going to have to figure out a different name for The Shire to go with it...maybe I'll call it "Live Dog" or "Undead Hamster" or "Flushed Fish"... :-D

	Hahah, "Undead Hamster"!  That name immediately reminded

me of the "Hampster Dance" [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampster_Dance]

		=G=
		

		-----Original Message-----
		From: Henrik Stoerner [mailto:henrik at hswn.dk]
		Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:32 AM
		To: hobbit at hswn.dk
		Subject: Re: [hobbit] Don't make the pie higher!

(was: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen) In <36304.192.168.0.1.1217859745.squirrel at epperson.homelinux.net> "Hobbit User in Richmond" <hobbit at epperson.homelinux.net> writes: >On Mon, August 4, 2008 09:00, Galen Johnson wrote: >> After reading the letters, it looked to me that as soon as they found out >> they couldn't pin anyone down to get a slice of the ephemeral pie, they >> decided that the name should be changed. >Well, as a PHB who's also a Linux lead, the way I read the letters is that >as soon as they found out they couldn't pin anyone down to commit to not >selling slices of their client's pie and not giving any more of it away >than was already the case, they wanted a name change. I thought the >attitude was quite refreshing after seeing decades worth of threatening >cease-and-desist letters. I agree. I think they have been treated me nicely; they could have just sent me a "stop-doing-this-or-we'll-sue-you-now" letter. They didn't, and in fact they have been generous to suggest a couple of possible name changes that I could do which would keep them happy. Add to this that they actually knew what I was talking about, when I told them that Hobbit is an Open Source product, so there is no money involved. They have a trademark to defend, and one of the rules of that game is that they MUST react when they become aware of possible violations of their trademark; if they don't, then they can forfeit their ownership of the trademark. So they have to do something, and I think they handled this nicely. Sure - having to rename everythin IS annoying, but I should have thought about that when I first picked the name. Regards, Henrik To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

NOTICE: This email and any attachments are confidential. They may contain legally privileged information or copyright material. You must not read, copy, use or disclose them without authorisation. If you are not an intended recipient, please contact us at once by return email and then delete both messages and all attachments.

Vernon? You've really got to get outside more....

8-)

|\/|artin

  -----Original Message-----
From: Everett, Vernon [mailto:Vernon.Everett at woodside.com.au] 
Sent: 06 August 2008 07:47
To: hobbit at hswn.dk
Subject: RE: [hobbit] Don't make the pie higher!


Hi all
 
I sent this the other day, but somehow, the formatting got all

garbled, so I doubt anybody took any notice of it. I did a bit of thinking about names. Precog - see Minority Report (the movie)
AWAC - See military refereces
Horus - See All-seeing Eye of Horus
Panoptes - See Argus Panoptes of greek mythology (Peacock as new logo)
MPM - Multi-Platform Monitor (and a nice play on MOM - Microsoft's abortion) Aprilicus - A series of spy satellites Almaz - Russian military (spy) satellites. Almaz also means diamond - reference to Hobbit icons? Now here's something else interesting I stumbled upon while random browsing Wikipedia In the early
stellar cults of Mesopotamia there were four "royal" Stars (known as Lords) which were called the
"watchers".
Each one of these stars "ruled" over one of the four cardinal points common to Astrology. This particular system would date from approximately 3000 BC.
The star Aldebaran, when it marked the Vernal Equinox, held the position of Watcher of the East. Regulus, marking the Summer Solstice, was Watcher of the South. Antares, marking the Autumn Equinox, was Watcher of the West. Fomalhaut, marking the Winter Solstice, was Watcher of the North.
In the star myths the "watchers" themselves were depicted as gods who guarded the Heavens and the Earth. Their nature, as well as their "rank", was altered by the successive lunar and solar cults that replaced the older stellar cults. Any of those could be a good name.
And if we want to stick with fantasy characters, how about one form the game Star Control II / The Ur-Quan Masters? Arilou. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariloulaleelay#Arilou <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariloulaleelay>
Any other ideas? Cheers Vernon NOTICE: This email and any attachments are confidential. They may contain legally privileged information or copyright material. You must not read, copy, use or disclose them without authorisation. If you are not an intended recipient, please contact us at once by return email and then delete both messages and all attachments.

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How about itsysmon?

The domain itsysmon.com seems to be available...

Just my 2c

Padraig Lennon Senior Systems Engineer Production Services Pioneer Global Investments (Dublin) 5th Floor Georges Quay Plaza, Dublin 2 ext: 2081 Direct dial: 00353 1 480 2081

-----Original Message----- From: Hobbit User in Richmond [mailto:hobbit at epperson.homelinux.net] Sent: 06 August 2008 17:05 To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: RE: [hobbit] Don't make the pie higher!

On Wed, August 6, 2008 09:40, Ward, Martin wrote:

Vernon? You've really got to get outside more....

Sounds like he's been getting waaaay out there, to me.

I've never taken to any of the mythos that have guardians for only the cardinal compass points. The Zuni had it probably had it right, with coverage for the four directions, but also the eagle protecting from above and the mole from below.

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

I think I may have added the poll feature to Dokuwiki...I'll have to doublecheck.

=G=

-----Original Message----- From: Phil Wild [mailto:philwild at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:38 AM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] Don't make the pie higher! (was: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen)

I am not sure if any member use TWiki. The creater of TWiki ran into similar issues with the copywrite owner of Buck Rogers. Twiki was the kid sized robot. That Robot now appears on the page, along with a disclaimer. I guess the difference there is that twiki.org may actually bring some $'s to the original owners simply in advertising an old memory. Unfortnately, the recent movies have had the opposite effect with hobbit.

So before we lose momentum, what software sits behind the shire?

Can we get a poll going?

I guess before we get a poll we need to create a list of choices. Unless someone has a better method, send your suggestions direct to

philwild at gmail dot com.

I will set up a filter to collect them.

Send the mail with a subject as such:

hobbitname: suggested_name

I will post a list of all suggested names to the list on August 15. Then perhaps we can set up a poll where we can vote.

Thoughts?

Phil 2008/8/4 Hobbit User in Richmond <hobbit at epperson.homelinux.net>:

On Mon, August 4, 2008 09:00, Galen Johnson wrote:

...

After reading the letters, it looked to me that as soon as they found out they couldn't pin anyone down to get a slice of the ephemeral pie, they decided that the name should be changed.

Well, as a PHB who's also a Linux lead, the way I read the letters is that as soon as they found out they couldn't pin anyone down to commit to not selling slices of their client's pie and not giving any more of it away than was already the case, they wanted a name change. I thought the attitude was quite refreshing after seeing decades worth of threatening cease-and-desist letters.

I presume that's because of instruction from the client, not because of the benevolent character of the law firm.

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

-- Tel: 0400 466 952 Fax: 0433 123 226 email: philwild AT gmail.com

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

From: "Phil Wild" <philwild at gmail.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:38 AM To: <hobbit at hswn.dk> Subject: Re: [hobbit] Don't make the pie higher! (was: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen)

I am not sure if any member use TWiki. The creater of TWiki ran into similar issues with the copywrite owner of Buck Rogers. Twiki was the kid sized robot. That Robot now appears on the page, along with a disclaimer. I guess the difference there is that twiki.org may actually bring some $'s to the original owners simply in advertising an old memory. Unfortnately, the recent movies have had the opposite effect with hobbit.

So before we lose momentum, what software sits behind the shire?

Can we get a poll going?

I guess before we get a poll we need to create a list of choices. Unless someone has a better method, send your suggestions direct to

philwild at gmail dot com.

I will set up a filter to collect them.

Send the mail with a subject as such:

hobbitname: suggested_name

I will post a list of all suggested names to the list on August 15. Then perhaps we can set up a poll where we can vote.

Thoughts?

How about use hobbit wiki site for this polling purpose ?

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/System_Monitoring_with_Hobbit/User_Guide#Renami...

tj

Phil 2008/8/4 Hobbit User in Richmond <hobbit at epperson.homelinux.net>:

...

On Mon, August 4, 2008 09:00, Galen Johnson wrote:

...

After reading the letters, it looked to me that as soon as they found out they couldn't pin anyone down to get a slice of the ephemeral pie, they decided that the name should be changed.

Well, as a PHB who's also a Linux lead, the way I read the letters is that as soon as they found out they couldn't pin anyone down to commit to not selling slices of their client's pie and not giving any more of it away than was already the case, they wanted a name change. I thought the attitude was quite refreshing after seeing decades worth of threatening cease-and-desist letters.

I presume that's because of instruction from the client, not because of the benevolent character of the law firm.

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

-- Tel: 0400 466 952 Fax: 0433 123 226 email: philwild AT gmail.com

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

From: "Galen Johnson" <Galen.Johnson at sas.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:52 AM To: <hobbit at hswn.dk> Subject: RE: [hobbit] Don't make the pie higher! (was: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen)

I'm not saying they weren't very nice...I agree it could have been handled in a much less friendly manner...lawyers never cease to amuse me.

Of course, when we pick a new name, I'm going to have to figure out a different name for The Shire to go with it...maybe I'll call it "Live Dog" or "Undead Hamster" or "Flushed Fish"... :-D

Since Henrik is going to use sourceforge more and open up the acess,

How about use sourceforge.net to host hobbit add-ons(The Shire) ?

Lets pool in limited hobbit resources together.

tj

=G=

-----Original Message----- From: Henrik Stoerner [mailto:henrik at hswn.dk] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:32 AM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] Don't make the pie higher! (was: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen)

In <36304.192.168.0.1.1217859745.squirrel at epperson.homelinux.net> "Hobbit User in Richmond" <hobbit at epperson.homelinux.net> writes:

...

On Mon, August 4, 2008 09:00, Galen Johnson wrote:

...

After reading the letters, it looked to me that as soon as they found out they couldn't pin anyone down to get a slice of the ephemeral pie, they decided that the name should be changed.

...

Well, as a PHB who's also a Linux lead, the way I read the letters is that as soon as they found out they couldn't pin anyone down to commit to not selling slices of their client's pie and not giving any more of it away than was already the case, they wanted a name change. I thought the attitude was quite refreshing after seeing decades worth of threatening cease-and-desist letters.

I agree. I think they have been treated me nicely; they could have just sent me a "stop-doing-this-or-we'll-sue-you-now" letter. They didn't, and in fact they have been generous to suggest a couple of possible name changes that I could do which would keep them happy.

Add to this that they actually knew what I was talking about, when I told them that Hobbit is an Open Source product, so there is no money involved.

They have a trademark to defend, and one of the rules of that game is that they MUST react when they become aware of possible violations of their trademark; if they don't, then they can forfeit their ownership of the trademark. So they have to do something, and I think they handled this nicely.

Sure - having to rename everythin IS annoying, but I should have thought about that when I first picked the name.

Regards, Henrik

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

From: "Galen Johnson" <Galen.Johnson at sas.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:23 AM To: <hobbit at hswn.dk> Subject: RE: [hobbit] Don't make the pie higher! (was: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen)

I started out on sourceforge...it didn't work out too well.

My idea SCM site to hose hobbit is Trac. but I am willing to go with lowest common denominator (sourceforge ;).

I am documenting my learning hobbit and svn here

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/System_Monitoring_with_Hobbit/Developer_Guide#S...

tj

-----Original Message----- From: T.J. Yang [mailto:tj_yang at hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:01 AM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] Don't make the pie higher! (was: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen)

---

From: "Galen Johnson" <Galen.Johnson at sas.com> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 9:52 AM To: <hobbit at hswn.dk> Subject: RE: [hobbit] Don't make the pie higher! (was: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen)

...

I'm not saying they weren't very nice...I agree it could have been handled in a much less friendly manner...lawyers never cease to amuse me.

Of course, when we pick a new name, I'm going to have to figure out a different name for The Shire to go with it...maybe I'll call it "Live Dog" or "Undead Hamster" or "Flushed Fish"... :-D

Since Henrik is going to use sourceforge more and open up the acess,

How about use sourceforge.net to host hobbit add-ons(The Shire) ?

Lets pool in limited hobbit resources together.

tj

...

=G=

-----Original Message----- From: Henrik Stoerner [mailto:henrik at hswn.dk] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:32 AM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] Don't make the pie higher! (was: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen)

In <36304.192.168.0.1.1217859745.squirrel at epperson.homelinux.net> "Hobbit User in Richmond" <hobbit at epperson.homelinux.net> writes:

...

On Mon, August 4, 2008 09:00, Galen Johnson wrote:

...

After reading the letters, it looked to me that as soon as they found out they couldn't pin anyone down to get a slice of the ephemeral pie, they decided that the name should be changed.

...

Well, as a PHB who's also a Linux lead, the way I read the letters is that as soon as they found out they couldn't pin anyone down to commit to not selling slices of their client's pie and not giving any more of it away than was already the case, they wanted a name change. I thought the attitude was quite refreshing after seeing decades worth of threatening cease-and-desist letters.

I agree. I think they have been treated me nicely; they could have just sent me a "stop-doing-this-or-we'll-sue-you-now" letter. They didn't, and in fact they have been generous to suggest a couple of possible name changes that I could do which would keep them happy.

Add to this that they actually knew what I was talking about, when I told them that Hobbit is an Open Source product, so there is no money involved.

They have a trademark to defend, and one of the rules of that game is that they MUST react when they become aware of possible violations of their trademark; if they don't, then they can forfeit their ownership of the trademark. So they have to do something, and I think they handled this nicely.

Sure - having to rename everythin IS annoying, but I should have thought about that when I first picked the name.

Regards, Henrik

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

To unsubscribe from the hobbit list, send an e-mail to hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

I haven't heard anything from them :).

From: Gary Baluha [mailto:gumby3203 at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 9:45 AM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

I think it's worth asking, have those same lawyers yet stumbled upon The Shire?

I agree with the most recent postings about PHBs and the name "Hobbit", but I wonder if the lawyers would accept HOBBIT (as opposed to Hobbit or H.O.B.B.I.T.). All caps would seem to imply it as an acronym, not needing those ugly periods.

How about find a name so obscure in the Silmarillion that even the lawyers couldn't find it.

Seriously though, how about hobbiton.

-----Original Message----- From: Josh Luthman [mailto:josh at imaginenetworksllc.com] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:41 PM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

My preference is to call it "Hobbitmon". Small change that should be legally satisfying and yet subtle to keep everyone on track. Not to mention you don't have to move the project on SF.

I did find this laughable. It seems the enterprise and team of lawyers are too lazy to read the front page.

"...you may have chosen to name your project "Hobbit" or "Hobbit Monitor" out of a deep appreciation for the Tolkien Works."

Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Henrik Stoerner <henrik at hswn.dk> wrote:

Hi everyone,

some lawyers behind the movie company that produced the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy have contacted me about using the name "Hobbit" for the Hobbit monitor project.

Fortunately, it seems that these people are actually quite sensible. They just want to make sure that there is no risk of anyone assuming that the "Hobbit monitor" has anything to do with the books, movies, merchandise etc. that they produce.

So they've suggested that beginning with the next release, "Hobbit monitor" is renamed to either "Hobbi monitor" (without the 't'), or "H.O.B.B.I.T. Monitor" . Or something else, but they want to know if I pick something else.

The full correspondance can be seen at http://www.hobbitmon.com/hobbitdocs/legal/

My current preference is to use the "H.O.B.B.I.T." version; this is most like the current name, and it would also fit with all of the current URL's used for various Hobbit functions (e.g. the "hobbitmon.sf.net" project page). I'm going to write the lawyers and get a definite OK that I can use "hobbitmon" in URL's and such; I doubt that I can get Sourceforge to accept a project named "h.o.b.b.i.t." since that would probably cause havoc with the DNS entries ...

But I'd like to hear if there are other suggestions or opinions.

Regards, Henrik

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I thought he grew up in Bloemfontein?

-----Original Message----- From: DA Forsyth [mailto:iwrtech at iwr.ru.ac.za] Sent: Friday, 1 August 2008 9:06 PM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

On 31 Jul 2008 , Manocchia, Robert entreated about "RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight na":

How about find a name so obscure in the Silmarillion that even the lawyers couldn't find it.

Seriously though, how about hobbiton.

that is a placename. 'Hobbiton on Hogsback', about 100km from where I am (you can see the Hogsback mountains on a clear day), I've been there, and that is where Tolkien grew up, ergo 'Hobbit's in the book

-- DA Fo rsyth Network Supervisor Principal Technical Officer -- Institute for Water Research http://www.ru.ac.za/institutes/iwr/

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I like it...it's exactly what the Palantir were for...

=G=

-----Original Message----- From: Mike Eggleston [mailto:mikeegg1 at mac.com] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 1:34 PM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008, Kern, Thomas might have said:

How about Palantir ?

No, 'precious'!

Mike

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Awwww...maaaaannnn...

-----Original Message----- From: Martin Flemming [mailto:martin.flemming at desy.de] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 1:56 PM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

Hmm, it's something already there

http://www.fastpath.it/products/palantir/

martin

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008, Galen Johnson wrote:

I like it...it's exactly what the Palantir were for...

=G=

-----Original Message----- From: Mike Eggleston [mailto:mikeegg1 at mac.com] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 1:34 PM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008, Kern, Thomas might have said:

...

How about Palantir ?

No, 'precious'!

Mike

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Martin Flemming wrote:

.... maybe "Hobbitse" like Gollum has said ...

... thousand of little Hobbitse ...  :-)

That sounds too much like goatse, there could be legal problems...

Joe

Yep, was only a fast thought ... :-)

"H.O.B.B.I.T. Monitor" and hobbitmon are already well names !

martin

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008, Josh Luthman wrote:

I thought the exact same thing when I first read that. I wasn't going to say anything first to condemn myself, though =)

Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 2:41 PM, J Sloan <joe at tmsusa.com> wrote:

...

Martin Flemming wrote:

...

.... maybe "Hobbitse" like Gollum has said ...

... thousand of little Hobbitse ...  :-)

That sounds too much like goatse, there could be legal problems...

Joe

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Gruss

    Martin Flemming

Martin Flemming DESY / IT office : Building 2b / 008a Notkestr. 85 phone : 040 - 8998 - 4667 22603 Hamburg mail : martin.flemming at desy.de

Okay, how about "Henrik's Most Excellent Server and Application and Service Monitoring System with Many Contributions from the Shirefolk".

Or "Henrik's Outstanding Big Brother Improvement Technologies" -- ( H. O. B. B. I. T. )

Or ... (I had better stop here!)

GLH

From: T.J. Yang [mailto:tj_yang at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 4:27 PM
To: hobbit at hswn.dk
Subject: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name

change will happen

I would suggest the new name should related the nature of system

monitoring more. Make it easier to be understand the function of the software by just reading its name.

This is actually a good chance to make the name right.


T.J. Yang

Time for vacation? WIN what you need. Enter Now!

<http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergiveaway/?ocid=tag_jlyhm>

With this hobbit naming issue coming up it looks like I asked a question at the wrong time. ;)

This may be much easier. could somebody cut'n'paste part of their hobbit-alerts.cfg here that uses email for alerts. If you have some with subpages that would be most excellent.

Thanks and everyone have a great weekend!

/tg

From: Tim Grzechowski [mailto:tim.grzechowski.osv at fedex.com] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 4:57 PM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: [hobbit] Alerts Help

I just cannot figure how to set up alerts.

Maybe I can save you lots of reading. All I am trying to do at this time I am just looking to set up basic paging to an email (list) address.

I will want to break it down to subpages for fabric servers, DB servers, web servers and weblogic server.

But. here is what I am working with now. For now I have, or so I thought, narrowed it down to the most basic of configuration and still cannot get it to work.

hobbit-alerts.cfg (added to the bottom of the file).

HOST=*

    MAIL root at localhost     SERVICE=conn    color=yellow

    MAIL root at localhost     SERVICE=cONN    color=red

    MAIL root at localhost     SERVICE=conn    color=purple

When I run bbcmd with just --test I get the following:

[root at tstfabric121 etc]# ../bin/bbcmd hobbitd_alert --test tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com procs

2008-07-31 16:48:03 Using default environment file /usr/lib/hobbit/server/etc/hobbitserver.cfg

00024059 2008-07-31 16:48:03 send_alert tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:procs state Paging

00024059 2008-07-31 16:48:03 Matching host:service:page 'tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:procs:' against rule line 125

00024059 2008-07-31 16:48:03 *** Match with 'HOST=*' ***

00024059 2008-07-31 16:48:03 Matching host:service:page 'tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:procs:' against rule line 126

00024059 2008-07-31 16:48:03 Failed 'MAIL root at localhost SERVICE=conn color=yellow' (service not in include list)

00024059 2008-07-31 16:48:03 Matching host:service:page 'tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:procs:' against rule line 127

00024059 2008-07-31 16:48:03 Failed 'MAIL root at localhost SERVICE=cONN color=red' (service not in include list)

00024059 2008-07-31 16:48:03 Matching host:service:page 'tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:procs:' against rule line 128

00024059 2008-07-31 16:48:03 Failed 'MAIL root at localhost SERVICE=conn color=purple' (service not in include list)

With --debug too I get this:

[root at tstfabric121 etc]# ../bin/bbcmd hobbitd_alert --test --debug tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com procs

2008-07-31 16:48:43 Using default environment file /usr/lib/hobbit/server/etc/hobbitserver.cfg

2008-07-31 16:48:43 Host not found in bb-hosts - assuming it is on the top page

00024284 2008-07-31 16:48:43 send_alert --debug:tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com state Paging

00024284 2008-07-31 16:48:43 Matching host:service:page '--debug:tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:' against rule line 125

00024284 2008-07-31 16:48:43 *** Match with 'HOST=*' ***

00024284 2008-07-31 16:48:43 Matching host:service:page '--debug:tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:' against rule line 126

00024284 2008-07-31 16:48:43 Failed 'MAIL root at localhost SERVICE=conn color=yellow' (service not in include list)

00024284 2008-07-31 16:48:43 Matching host:service:page '--debug:tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:' against rule line 127

00024284 2008-07-31 16:48:43 Failed 'MAIL root at localhost SERVICE=cONN color=red' (service not in include list)

00024284 2008-07-31 16:48:43 Matching host:service:page '--debug:tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:' against rule line 128

00024284 2008-07-31 16:48:43 Failed 'MAIL root at localhost SERVICE=conn color=purple' (service not in include list)

Now the host, tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com, is in the bb-host file. And, in fact, is the hobbit server.

Also, so long as I am burning bandwidth, I am not understanding how the page/subpage work into this? I do have subpage's set up in my bb-hosts file.

Thanks.

I added the following to hobbit-alerts.cfg:

 HOST=*

      MAIL root at localhost COLOR=yellow,purple,red

But when I run the bbcmd test the last line is what is throwing me off.

 [root at tstfabric121 etc]# ../bin/bbcmd hobbitd_alert --test

tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com conn

 2008-08-01 16:11:12 Using default environment file

/usr/lib/hobbit/server/etc/hobbitserver.cfg

 00024148 2008-08-01 16:11:12 send_alert tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:conn

state Paging

 00024148 2008-08-01 16:11:12 Matching host:service:page

'tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:conn:' against rule line 125

 00024148 2008-08-01 16:11:12 *** Match with 'HOST=*' ***

 00024148 2008-08-01 16:11:12 Matching host:service:page

'tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:conn:' against rule line 126

 00024148 2008-08-01 16:11:12 *** Match with 'MAIL root at localhost

COLOR=yellow,purple,red' ***

 00024148 2008-08-01 16:11:12 Mail alert with command 'mail -s "Hobbit

[12345] tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:conn CRITICAL (RED)" root at localhost'

  [root at tstfabric121 etc]#

That line is throwing me off. The fact that it says "CRITCAL (RED)". As that host is all green that line would lead me to believe that the test is not working as expected and is going to email a CRITCAL (RED) email. Correct?

/tg

Click the info button for a host that matches an alert rule, it is easier to read that way.

On 8/1/08, Omar Hermannsson <omar at basis.is> wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

hobbitd_alert --test is for simulating various different conditions. It doesn't reflect the current status of the tests. You can pass extra parameters to specify the color, duration, group and time.

*** from the manpage ***

---

• --test HOST SERVICE [options] Shows which alert rules matches the given HOST/SERVICE combination. Useful to debug configuration problems, and see what rules are used for an alert.

  The possible options are: --color=COLORNAME The COLORNAME parameter is the color of the alert: red, yellow or purple. --duration=SECONDS The SECONDS parameter is the duration of the alert in seconds. --group=GROUPNAME The GROUPNAME paramater is a groupid string from the hobbit-clients.cfg file. --time=TIMESTRING The TIMESTRING parameter is the time-of-day for the alert, expressed as an absolute time in the epoch format (seconds since Jan 1 1970). This is easily obtained with the GNU date utility using the "+%s" output format.

---

Also instead of HOST=* you can use PAGE=pagename if you've seperated your hosts into subpages in bbhosts.

PAGE=Production COLOR=red EXSERVICE=%(cpu|memory|msgs) DURATION>6 MAIL root at localhost

Cheers, Omar

On fös 1.ágú 2008 21:16, Tim Grzechowski wrote:

...

I added the following to hobbit-alerts.cfg:

 HOST=*

      MAIL root at localhost COLOR=yellow,purple,red

But when I run the bbcmd test the last line is what is throwing me off.

 [root at tstfabric121 etc]# ../bin/bbcmd hobbitd_alert --test

tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com conn

 2008-08-01 16:11:12 Using default environment file

/usr/lib/hobbit/server/etc/hobbitserver.cfg

 00024148 2008-08-01 16:11:12 send_alert

tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:conn state Paging

 00024148 2008-08-01 16:11:12 Matching host:service:page

'tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:conn:' against rule line 125

 00024148 2008-08-01 16:11:12 *** Match with 'HOST=*' ***

 00024148 2008-08-01 16:11:12 Matching host:service:page

'tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:conn:' against rule line 126

 00024148 2008-08-01 16:11:12 *** Match with 'MAIL root at localhost

COLOR=yellow,purple,red' ***

 *00024148 2008-08-01 16:11:12 Mail alert with command 'mail -s

"Hobbit [12345] tstfabric121.ce.fedex.com:conn CRITICAL (RED)" root at localhost'* a few [root at tstfabric121 etc]#

That line is throwing me off. The fact that it says "CRITCAL (RED)". As that host is all green that line would lead me to believe that the test is not working as expected and is going to email a CRITCAL (RED) email. Correct?

/tg

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFIk4ElO5lNk+Yy9cgRAqMdAKDMBsqno6aqHnqI7PviJg5jaX4MwgCaArKy vAWwZR8S+EgYs5sNC+tuZ/A= =qKeG -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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-- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer

HMESaAaSMSwMCftS??? That's a mouthful...I like the second choice better. Or maybe Glaurung...or Bilbo (again...there's already a Frodo out there...IIRC, it's a C64 emulator)...or Hobbit is not Hobbit...HinH...there are precedents (GNU...GNU's not unix)...

=G=

From: Hubbard, Greg L [greg.hubbard at eds.com] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 5:37 PM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

Okay, how about "Henrik's Most Excellent Server and Application and Service Monitoring System with Many Contributions from the Shirefolk".

Or "Henrik's Outstanding Big Brother Improvement Technologies" -- ( H. O. B. B. I. T. )

Or ... (I had better stop here!)

GLH

From: T.J. Yang [mailto:tj_yang at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 4:27 PM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

I would suggest the new name should related the nature of system monitoring more. Make it easier to be understand the function of the software by just reading its name.

This is actually a good chance to make the name right.

T.J. Yang

Time for vacation? WIN what you need. Enter Now!<http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergiveaway/?ocid=tag_jlyhm>

Whatever amounts to the least amount of work for Henrik is perhaps best. How about calling it hmon or henrikmon? Or just call it hobbit :) Yeah, I know, hobbitmon is likely a good choice...

Cheers,

Tim

If you trust wikipedia: 1)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbit_%28disambiguation%29 2)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbit_%28word%29#Oxford.27s_position

Hubbard, Greg L wrote:

Okay, how about "Henrik's Most Excellent Server and Application and Service Monitoring System with Many Contributions from the Shirefolk".

Or "Henrik's Outstanding Big Brother Improvement Technologies" -- ( H. O. B. B. I. T. )

Or ... (I had better stop here!)

GLH

*From:* T.J. Yang [mailto:tj_yang at hotmail.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, July 31, 2008 4:27 PM
*To:* hobbit at hswn.dk
*Subject:* RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name
change will happen

I would suggest the new name should related the nature of system
monitoring more.
Make it easier to be understand the function of the software by just
reading its name.

This is actually a good chance to make the name right.


T.J. Yang



Time for vacation? WIN what you need. Enter Now!
<http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergiveaway/?ocid=tag_jlyhm> 

I would guess that the lawyers would probably still object to hobbitmon as it contains the word hobbit...

It is worth a try though...

I don't like the H.O.B.B.I.T. A google search returns 16,500,000 hits

Another suggestion would be hobbmon. I just did a google of this and there are only three matches (and only to a surname) so the name is free. The domain is also available...

I think the shorter the better... "Henrik's Other Big Brother MONitor"

My 0.02c

Phil

-- Tel: 0400 466 952 Fax: 0433 123 226 email: philwild AT gmail.com

Not a big fan of the l33t speak. I don't think it is going to help the cause much or the satisfy the lawyers.

'Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded.' --Yogi Berra

On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:31 AM, Nash, David (ELS-OXF) <D.Nash at elsevier.com>wrote:

*How about "Hob-IT" ?*

*The "-IT" implies something to do with computers. The word sounds the same as the existing name. *

*The only downside is some people might think it has something to do with cooking. **J***

*Dave*

---

*From:* Dan Simoes [mailto:dan.simoes at gmail.com] *Sent:* 01 August 2008 15:02 *To:* hobbit at hswn.dk *Subject:* Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

How about h0bbit?

(that's a zero, not an O) Don't think that would work for a domain though.

Otherwise, I vote for hmon (hobbit monitor) or hsmon (Henrik Stoerner's monitor). Both are available as .org domains.

Dan

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 9:30 AM, Henrik Stoerner <henrik at hswn.dk> wrote:

Hi everyone,

some lawyers behind the movie company that produced the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy have contacted me about using the name "Hobbit" for the Hobbit monitor project.

Fortunately, it seems that these people are actually quite sensible. They just want to make sure that there is no risk of anyone assuming that the "Hobbit monitor" has anything to do with the books, movies, merchandise etc. that they produce.

So they've suggested that beginning with the next release, "Hobbit monitor" is renamed to either "Hobbi monitor" (without the 't'), or "H.O.B.B.I.T. Monitor" . Or something else, but they want to know if I pick something else.

The full correspondance can be seen at http://www.hobbitmon.com/hobbitdocs/legal/

My current preference is to use the "H.O.B.B.I.T." version; this is most like the current name, and it would also fit with all of the current URL's used for various Hobbit functions (e.g. the "hobbitmon.sf.net" project page). I'm going to write the lawyers and get a definite OK that I can use "hobbitmon" in URL's and such; I doubt that I can get Sourceforge to accept a project named "h.o.b.b.i.t." since that would probably cause havoc with the DNS entries ...

But I'd like to hear if there are other suggestions or opinions.

Regards, Henrik

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This email is from Elsevier Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with company number 1982084, whose registered office is The Boulevard, Langford Lane, Kidlington, Oxford, OX5 1GB, United Kingdom.

How about just "HobbitMonitor" ? plain and simple to understand.

T.J. Yang

Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:31:59 +0100 From: D.Nash at elsevier.com To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

How about “Hob-IT” ?

The “-IT” implies something to do with computers. The word sounds the same as the existing name.

The only downside is some people might think it has something to do with cooking. J

Dave

From: Dan Simoes [mailto:dan.simoes at gmail.com]

Sent: 01 August 2008 15:02

To: hobbit at hswn.dk

Subject: Re: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

How about h0bbit?

(that's a zero, not an O)

Don't think that would work for a domain though.

Otherwise, I vote for hmon (hobbit monitor) or hsmon (Henrik Stoerner's monitor).

Both are available as .org domains.

Dan

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 9:30 AM, Henrik Stoerner <henrik at hswn.dk> wrote:

Hi everyone,

some lawyers behind the movie company that produced the "Lord of the

Rings" trilogy have contacted me about using the name "Hobbit" for the

Hobbit monitor project.

Fortunately, it seems that these people are actually quite sensible.

They just want to make sure that there is no risk of anyone assuming

that the "Hobbit monitor" has anything to do with the books, movies,

merchandise etc. that they produce.

So they've suggested that beginning with the next release, "Hobbit

monitor" is renamed to either "Hobbi monitor" (without the 't'), or

"H.O.B.B.I.T. Monitor" . Or something else, but they want to know

if I pick something else.

The full correspondance can be seen at

http://www.hobbitmon.com/hobbitdocs/legal/

My current preference is to use the "H.O.B.B.I.T." version;

this is most like the current name, and it would also fit

with all of the current URL's used for various Hobbit functions (e.g.

the "hobbitmon.sf.net" project page). I'm going to write the lawyers and

get a definite OK that I can use "hobbitmon" in URL's and such;

I doubt that I can get Sourceforge to accept a project named

"h.o.b.b.i.t." since that would probably cause havoc with the DNS

entries ...

But I'd like to hear if there are other suggestions or opinions.

Regards,

Henrik

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hobbit-unsubscribe at hswn.dk

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The corporate culture is such that while everyone I show loves what Hobbit does not one person will implement it. One of the big problems is the name and then maybe the icons :-(. Any chance that someone else in the corporate environment can use it as a source of ridicule no matter how unjustified will kill it before it gets off the ground. These people aren't PHB's just been there, done that and don't want to do anything that will damage their career.

I would suggest something along the lines of "Sulvantent", a made up word close enough to Surveillance for people to link the two.

B.T.W. I explain that I like all of the systems in my care to be doing what the business wants them to do and when this happens we get "green across the board". This is where Hobbit gets its name, Hobbits like green and will work hard to get it. This helps, but not enough.

Regards Graeme

-----Original Message----- From: Henrik Stoerner [mailto:henrik at hswn.dk] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:30 PM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

Hi everyone,

some lawyers behind the movie company that produced the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy have contacted me about using the name "Hobbit" for the Hobbit monitor project.

Fortunately, it seems that these people are actually quite sensible. They just want to make sure that there is no risk of anyone assuming that the "Hobbit monitor" has anything to do with the books, movies, merchandise etc. that they produce.

So they've suggested that beginning with the next release, "Hobbit monitor" is renamed to either "Hobbi monitor" (without the 't'), or "H.O.B.B.I.T. Monitor" . Or something else, but they want to know if I pick something else.

The full correspondance can be seen at http://www.hobbitmon.com/hobbitdocs/legal/

My current preference is to use the "H.O.B.B.I.T." version; this is most like the current name, and it would also fit with all of the current URL's used for various Hobbit functions (e.g. the "hobbitmon.sf.net" project page). I'm going to write the lawyers and get a definite OK that I can use "hobbitmon" in URL's and such; I doubt that I can get Sourceforge to accept a project named "h.o.b.b.i.t." since that would probably cause havoc with the DNS entries ...

But I'd like to hear if there are other suggestions or opinions.

Regards, Henrik

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Names?

Precog - see Minority Report (the movie) AWAC - See military refereces Horus - See All-seeing Eye of Horus Panoptes - See Argus Panoptes of greek mythology (Peacock as new logo) MPM - Multi-Platform Monitor (and a nice play on MOM - Microsoft's abortion) Aprilicus - A series of spy satellites Almaz - Russian military (spy) satellites. Almaz also means diamond - reference to Hobbit icons?

Now here's something interesting I stumbled upon while random browsing Wikipedia In the early stellar cults of Mesopotamia there were four "royal" Stars (known as Lords) which were called the "watchers". Each one of these stars "ruled" over one of the four cardinal points common to Astrology. This particular system would date from approximately 3000 BC. The star Aldebaran, when it marked the Vernal Equinox, held the position of Watcher of the East. Regulus, marking the Summer Solstice, was Watcher of the South. Antares, marking the Autumn Equinox, was Watcher of the West. Fomalhaut, marking the Winter Solstice, was Watcher of the North. In the star myths the "watchers" themselves were depicted as gods who guarded the Heavens and the Earth. Their nature, as well as their "rank", was altered by the successive lunar and solar cults that replaced the older stellar cults.

Any of those could be good.

And if we want to stick with fantasy characters, how about one form the game Star Control II / The Ur-Quan Masters? Arilou. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariloulaleelay#Arilou

Any other ideas?

Cheers Vernon

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http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/System_Monitoring_with_Hobbit/User_Guide#Renami...

T.J. Yang

Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 09:03:09 +0800 From: Vernon.Everett at woodside.com.au To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: RE: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

Hi all

Corporations spend millions of dollars every year, just researching product and brand names. The process of coming up with a name is huge business, and can make or break a product.

Can anybody remember the Chev Nova? Great name. Nova - star explosion! Wow! What an impact! It actually sold well, but when Chev introduced it into Argentina, where the speak Spanish, they had to rename it. For the non-Spanish speakers out there, "No va" means "Doesn't go". (I think it sold under the name "Malibu" or something like that.)

Beside the fact that it was a crap product, who can guess how many Microsoft Zunes sold in Israel? The word Zune, in Hebrew, means, erm, how shall I put this.... A vulgar term for fornicate. Guess how many of them sold there.

Mitsubish Pajero? In Spanish, Pajero means, erm.... , man gratifying himself sexually. That should get major corporate acceptance. :-) (It was renamed to Montero (mountain hunter) in Spanish speaking countries)

I am not suggesting we spend millions on branding, we don't have millions, but we need to consider many aspects of a name. Some of the things to think about

• Corporate acceptance
• Associated meanings
• Meaning in different languages
• Meaning of minor spelling changes
• Legal and copyright issues
• Domain availability I am sure there are more issues, but it's early on a Saturday morning, and I haven't had my coffee yet.

Cheers Vernon

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Your PC, mobile phone, and online services work together like never before. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108587394/direct/01/

then maybe the icons :-(. Sell this as "vision impared" friendly; corps Love to hear such things.
My boss is very color blind.

Shea, Graeme A wrote:

The corporate culture is such that while everyone I show loves what Hobbit does not one person will implement it. One of the big problems is the name and then maybe the icons :-(. Any chance that someone else in the corporate environment can use it as a source of ridicule no matter how unjustified will kill it before it gets off the ground. These people aren't PHB's just been there, done that and don't want to do anything that will damage their career.

I would suggest something along the lines of "Sulvantent", a made up word close enough to Surveillance for people to link the two.

B.T.W. I explain that I like all of the systems in my care to be doing what the business wants them to do and when this happens we get "green across the board". This is where Hobbit gets its name, Hobbits like green and will work hard to get it. This helps, but not enough.

Regards Graeme

-----Original Message----- From: Henrik Stoerner [mailto:henrik at hswn.dk] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:30 PM To: hobbit at hswn.dk Subject: [hobbit] "Hobbit" name legal stuff; slight name change will happen

Hi everyone,

some lawyers behind the movie company that produced the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy have contacted me about using the name "Hobbit" for the Hobbit monitor project.

Fortunately, it seems that these people are actually quite sensible. They just want to make sure that there is no risk of anyone assuming that the "Hobbit monitor" has anything to do with the books, movies, merchandise etc. that they produce.

So they've suggested that beginning with the next release, "Hobbit monitor" is renamed to either "Hobbi monitor" (without the 't'), or "H.O.B.B.I.T. Monitor" . Or something else, but they want to know if I pick something else.

The full correspondance can be seen at http://www.hobbitmon.com/hobbitdocs/legal/

My current preference is to use the "H.O.B.B.I.T." version; this is most like the current name, and it would also fit with all of the current URL's used for various Hobbit functions (e.g. the "hobbitmon.sf.net" project page). I'm going to write the lawyers and get a definite OK that I can use "hobbitmon" in URL's and such; I doubt that I can get Sourceforge to accept a project named "h.o.b.b.i.t." since that would probably cause havoc with the DNS entries ...

But I'd like to hear if there are other suggestions or opinions.

Regards, Henrik

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