I agree completely, Vernon.
The only way I would change what you have to say (were I saying it) is that even though you're a level 1 or 2 user, there's no reason you cannot apply level 6 or 7 research before asking a question. That research will make your level 2 question into a level 4 or 5 question, and everyone will benefit.
We should endeavor to all:
a) help whenever we can b) research our question thoroughly before asking here c) lather, rinse, repeat
There have been times where some have even jumped on here and asked a question then demanded speedy response because they have a deadline.
eh? Do I get a stipend? :)
It's all about being civil, being helpful, and looking after your own abilities and research before looking for help.
Granted, we do have a number of internationals on the list, and grace is always applied liberally. However, "it doesn't work, how do I make it work" is not an acceptable question.
As you can tell, I've had a very large amount of sleep. :)
Good discussion, everyone. I love Vernon's comments here.
--j
On Mar 24, 2010, at 2:22 AM, Vernon Everett wrote:
Hi all
Without pointing any fingers, I would like offer some advice. Let's be nice.
Yes, I agree, some questions can be annoying, and have been asked and answered over and over, but we need to remember we were all ignorant once. Yes, There are multiple repositories of knowledge, but that is also part of the problem. Where to look. I recall a few years back, I was looking for an SMF file for Hobbit on Solaris 10. I searched, and couldn't find one, so I wrote my own and proudly posted it to the list, only to be told one already existed, and was available in the only place I didn't look. (It's still there http://xymonton.trantor.org/doku.php/addons:hobbitsmf - Thanks for that one Galen.)
I always think of list members in terms of profieciency, and measure it by the questions and sometimes the answers I see. Then I imagine the proficiency on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is a total noob, 10 would probably be Henrik. If you think of yourself as, for the purpose of this demonstration, a level 8 hobbit user, then you would be stuck on most questions coming from most level 9 or 10 users, but quite capable of solving problems from a level 1 to 7. However, the level 1 to 5 questions appear trivial to you, and annoy you. Ignore them. A level 3 question is obviously a challenge to a level 3 person, but a delight for a level 4 or 5 to answer, and thus contribute constructively to the list. By the same token, even level 1 questions have their value. Not only do they allow moderate level users to actively participate in the list, and in so doing, reinforce their own knowledge, more importantly, it makes the level 1 noob feel that this is a friendly group of nice people willing to help them get started. There is nothing worse than trying to get involved in something that looks good, interesting and fun, only to be told to fsck-off! Some of us may have experienced that in life, some not - I can assure you though, it's not a good feeling.
In the past, when the question has been trivial, and covered in the man pages or similar documents, I have not given the answer, but pointed them to the respective page or mail archive entry. The "teach a man to fish" approach. (Search for my name and "endian" for an example of this in the mail archive)
If a question frustrates you, hit the delete key. Somebody else will respond. If a user frustrates you, set up a filter. That's why we have them. But lets be nice, even to those who might not deserve it. Besides the reasons listed above, it's just good karma.
Let me end by saying, that we should terminate this thread very quickly, before we have a flame war.
Regards V